Re: [Xen-users] The death of XEN by Novell

[Alexander Hoßdorf <xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

I think he's not blaming XEN.
He only blames himself ;-)

Think we get a little bit offtopic ^^

There seem to be no wise reactions from him, regarding any suggestions.

Cheers,
Alex



Outback Dingo schrieb:
> Somehow i dont get the concept of running a claimed multi-million 
> dollar enterprise that he claims is loosing so much due to downtime in 
> a virtual environment either
> let alone using windows for this type of task, but hey to each their 
> own. the only right plan is a good plan, the only good plan is a 
> redundent plan
> Id be afraid to ask what happens if they were to experience a 
> catastrophic event, speaking from experience of Hurricanes, 
> Earthquakes, Typhoons and Tsunamis
> What the escape plans ?? and you blame XEN for not functioning in a 
> virtual environment, Id have your job and your bosses if you worked 
> for me!
> I wonder who sleeps better at night, you, your boss or me!
>
> Tao Shen schrieb:
>
>         First of all, your boss should fire you for saying "windows
>         2008 sql server runs perfectly unless windows crashes"
>
>         Secondly, whoever delivered the xen solution on your 200k per
>         day production server should be fired for not understanding
>         the concept of single point of failure.
>
>         Now that you learned the lesson at 5k per hour,you should dump
>         virtual machines and have redundant physical machines for
>         mission critical services on your network.  For 200k a day,
>         that is 72million a year revenue, you should have a budget of
>         at least 5 to 7 mil to handle redundancy issues, which means
>         double or even triple redundancy networks and San storage for
>         database servers.
>
>         Lastly, I think that either your boss bluffed you with 5k per
>         hour cost of downtime, or you did, since I cannot imagine such
>         incompetent people running a business valued at 15 times
>         earning or hundreds of millions if your 72 million revenue
>         figure is indeed correct.
>
>         Btw, xen is maintained by citrix, not Novell.
>
>         On Jul 20, 2008, at 11:36 AM, "Venefax" <venefax@xxxxxxxxx
>         <mailto:venefax@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
>             SQL Server only runs in Windows. I am now actually
>             learning DB2 in order to
>             use a Linux-based database. But of course I am not dumb to
>             put my entire
>             business on a database I cannot support, yet, the way I do
>             with SQL Server.
>             And the beauty is the with XEN-Windows 2008, SQL Server
>             runs perfectly,
>             unless Windows crashes.
>
>             -----Original Message-----
>             From: Florian Manschwetus
>             [mailto:florianmanschwetus@xxxxxx
>             <mailto:florianmanschwetus@xxxxxx>]
>             Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 12:30 PM
>             To: Mark Williamson
>             Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>             <mailto:xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Venefax; jim burns
>             Subject: Re: [Xen-users] The death of XEN by Novell
>
>             Mark Williamson schrieb:
>
>                 On Sunday 20 July 2008, jim burns wrote:
>
>                     On Sun July 20 2008 9:51:52 am Venefax wrote:
>
>                         The Novell engineer showed me a technical
>                         document, which I did not
>
>             write
>
>                         the number, on the Novell web site, where it
>                         said: windows SMP using the
>                         Novell driver crashes.
>
>                     That's what I thought - the problem is with
>                     Novell's PV drivers, not Xen.
>                     James had some initial problems with SMP also.
>
>
>                 Right, that's important.  Novell's PV drivers are
>                 their code so those
>
>             drivers
>
>                 might have limitations that plain Xen does not.
>                  Presumably it would be
>                 possible to run using fully emulated IO instead of PV
>                 drivers but I
>
>             imagine
>
>                 this could have performance problems in your
>                 configuration.  Could be
>
>             worth a
>
>                 try, if you can afford to experiment.
>
>                 If the Windows VMs themselves are crashing due to
>                 Novell's PV drivers then
>
>             I'm
>
>                 afraid this limitation / problem is really Novell's
>                 responsibility and
>
>             they
>
>                 would be the best people to approach for assistance /
>                 complaints.  The
>
>             code
>
>                 for those drivers isn't open, so only Novell can fix
>                 them.  If the Novell
>
>             PV
>
>                 drivers are somehow crashing your Linux domains or
>                 dom0 or Xen itself then
>
>
>                 that might be a Xen bug and it would be useful to post
>                 more details here.
>
>                 For comparison, Citrix/XenSource supply with their
>                 product PV drivers for
>                 Windows that are - AFAIK - a different codebase and
>                 may not have these
>                 limitations.  So do Virtual Iron, for their Xen-based
>                 product.  Both of
>
>             these
>
>                 can only be used with their respective commercial
>                 hypervisors, AFAIK.
>
>             James
>
>                 Harper's PV drivers for Windows are GPL but still
>                 under development and so
>
>             I
>
>                 doubt they'd be recommended for heavy production use.
>
>                 There are a lot of different PV driver solutions for
>                 Windows about and
>
>             none of
>
>                 them are officially part of the OSS Xen project; only
>                 one of them is even
>                 Open Source.
>
>             I really wonder why you run your SQL servers in windows
>             and all the rest
>             in Linux???
>             I asume especially for databases is Windows a bad base,
>             but i have a
>             win20008 sharepoint running on xen 3.2.1 with 2 vcpus it
>             works great and
>             stable with james drives.
>             And if you like to use this single Box, you may ask SUN
>             (Solaris and
>             SunXvm).
>
>             florian
>
>                         I use a SIP Server on the Linux side, talking
>                         hundreds of times per
>                         second to SQL Server, so I need SMP 8 ways on
>                         both  ends.
>
>                     Something I've never seen you actually say is that
>                     you *tried* vcpu=1,
>
>             and
>
>                     the performance was bad. So far, it sounds like
>                     theory to me. Even with 1
>                     vcpu, playing with scheduling weights should help.
>
>
>                 Venefax, are you able to try this?
>
>                 Thank you,
>                 Mark
>
>
>
>
>
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