Re: [Xen-users] Windows guest accelerated 3d?

["Gryffus" <gryffus@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Thank you for making it a little clearer...

So if i understand it clearly, the best solution would be 2 graphics cards?
I have 1 integrated GPU and 1 i PCI-E slot...
Would this work? I think, to have 1 GPU dedicated to domU and 1 to dom0? And 
even for windoze? And how?
VMGL is unfortunately only for opengl, but most windows games uses 
directx... I think wine has some translation layer between DX and opengl, 
but i dont think that it will be merged with VMGL, or that VMGL will have 
something simillar... Do u think in future, there will be some similar layer 
in Xen, something like virtual 3D card for guest? Or xen 3D will suppot will 
go IOMMU path? If there will be working IOMMU kernel & chipset & CPU, will 
the 3D acceleration work through vnc?
It is still best wine for playing games, or qemu, vmware or another VM is 
also developing 3D acceleration in full virtualised guest? I heard that 
vmware have something working, but it only supports DX8.1 and it is very 
buggy...
Is here anyone that has more information about 3D in other VMs? I just 
thought that Xen is the fastest solution for virtualization...
Thank you for answering at least some of my many questions. Many thanky

Best regards
                   Gryffus

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Williamson" <mark.williamson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Gryffus" <gryffus@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Windows guest accelerated 3d?


> Hi there Gryffus,
>
> > I have few questions, so if some1 could answer them i would be very
> > thankful...
> >
> > I wanna use xen for following purpose:
> > I'm planning to buy shiny new box and i wanna run a linux (xen?) kernel 
> > and
> > i want to run window$ 3D applications accelerated (with working 
> > directx)...
> > All of this without reboot...
> >
> > 1) What i need to run windows XP in xen with _accelerated_ 3D? IOMMU, or
> > something more than that? 2 graphics cards? And which processors does
> > support IOMMU and what graphics card is the best for this?
> At the moment you can't get 3D accelerated graphics with only one graphics
> card...
>
> Code supporting IOMMU has recently been added to xen-unstable so it's 
> possible
> that you could pass through a PCI device to a Windows guest.  In practice, 
> I
> suspect that graphics cards haven't been tested, so passing them through 
> may
> not work.  It is very new support, anyhow.
>
> I don't know of any companies who'd support 3D accelerated virtual 
> machines
> for you just yet :-(  I expect that will change in a year or two, though.
>
> FYI, getting 3D graphics drivers to load under Xen can be a pain even for
> dom0.  For that reason, you might find another VMM is more convenient to 
> use.
> Still, people have managed to get versions of the Nvidia and ATI drivers
> working in the past...  That doesn't solve the problem of accelerating
> Windows, though.
>
> > 2) Is the best solution work normally on xen kernel (kde desktop, compiz,
> > etc....) and have window$ the only 1 guest, or 1xen kernel, and 2guests - 
> > 1
> > linux for working and 1 window$ for gaming? And how do i switch between 
> > all
> > the VMs? Or better way is to have 1st VM running on 1st display and 2nd 
> > VM
> > on 2nd display? How?
> Typically you have VNC connections to each guest in order to access the
> virtual screen.  Because Xen is server-oriented, most people don't do a 
> lot
> of interacting with the display device (which is currently a little slow).
> For Unixy guests, you can also just use something like X-forwarding.
>
> Because it's just VNC, the virtual machine displays appear in Windows.
>
> If you're going to use the machine as a desktop, it makes sense to 
> interact
> with dom0 directly for normal work.  I don't think you'll be doing much
> gaming with Windows if you have to use the emulated graphics though :-(
>
> Something you might find cool is VMGL - a project (still a bit 
> experimental, I
> think) to give 3D acceleration to X11 (Linux, FreeBSD) virtual machines.
> It's actually independent of Xen and can work with VMware.
> http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andreslc/xen-gl/
>
>
> Sorry I couldn't give you more positive news about Windows gaming under 
> Xen.
> In consolation, I guess I'd note that if you're running really demanding 
> 3D
> games you mightn't want the CPU overhead / network of running under
> virtualisation.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
> --
> Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat?  And no pedals!
> Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
> Dave: Skateboards have wheels.
> Mark: My wheel has a wheel! 
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