WARNING - OLD ARCHIVES

This is an archived copy of the Xen.org mailing list, which we have preserved to ensure that existing links to archives are not broken. The live archive, which contains the latest emails, can be found at http://lists.xen.org/
   
 
 
Xen 
 
Home Products Support Community News
 
   
 

xen-users

Re: [Xen-users] The death of XEN by Novell

To: "Alexander Hoßdorf" <xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] The death of XEN by Novell
From: "Gastón Keller" <gastonkeller@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:37:28 -0400
Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Delivery-date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:38:07 -0700
Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=g5stL1jeLsPUWF/mivlYI0w2QP7PUp/8zmDGs9AeqWE=; b=ADf8XD4rshfvrFCDSBRQXJU5whhBciNHaUI9g/GCZJfUqRivpyG4fhiJTO1jIM5GrI dw2JGrrU6tU1w+P9mh7etxugQIGhDdNyIYAkOUNznWbLoql5JPQc7r+gxQLX2vLlYV4H ACcElLLCUPk9hKFRoxzGxZU+kSn6PaoOWjyjo=
Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=AOpce+wYvaR2/GCypZ0o3RvzcZqYCsR8DA/00r9tyMiQ+YxLzA/3th5sNsJBwxZqi+ mbZlp+klOZj+NmP/cCrPqBFtYo959ECLvdb/T9JFQk6i7VnspNObIticJUjL9dLx4Vrn Nfh61rSxs7kTah12wZNeFUPV+6CANqVmFZ/9c=
Envelope-to: www-data@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In-reply-to: <48849033.9040604@xxxxxxxxxxx>
List-help: <mailto:xen-users-request@lists.xensource.com?subject=help>
List-id: Xen user discussion <xen-users.lists.xensource.com>
List-post: <mailto:xen-users@lists.xensource.com>
List-subscribe: <http://lists.xensource.com/mailman/listinfo/xen-users>, <mailto:xen-users-request@lists.xensource.com?subject=subscribe>
List-unsubscribe: <http://lists.xensource.com/mailman/listinfo/xen-users>, <mailto:xen-users-request@lists.xensource.com?subject=unsubscribe>
References: <fc1cbedb0807170903s1f539b8aj32017e643bbd2853@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <049401c8ea6f$c4b031d0$4e109570$@com> <200807201026.50582.jim_burn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <200807201711.34406.mark.williamson@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <48836812.1070506@xxxxxx> <04b301c8ea86$ce66a5d0$6b33f170$@com> <75C82088-A0A1-4954-A5E6-A5BD272A016C@xxxxxxxxx> <4884894D.3080804@xxxxxxxxxxx> <5635aa0d0807210622p1180d31aua7c2376833c3c48a@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <48849033.9040604@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sender: xen-users-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Alexander Hoßdorf
<xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I think he's not blaming XEN.
> He only blames himself ;-)
>
> Think we get a little bit offtopic ^^

I agree. There's no point in keeping telling him the _mistakes_ there
seem to be in his plans. Let's move on.

Gaston

>
> There seem to be no wise reactions from him, regarding any suggestions.
>
> Cheers,
> Alex
>
>
>
> Outback Dingo schrieb:
>>
>> Somehow i dont get the concept of running a claimed multi-million dollar
>> enterprise that he claims is loosing so much due to downtime in a virtual
>> environment either
>> let alone using windows for this type of task, but hey to each their own.
>> the only right plan is a good plan, the only good plan is a redundent plan
>> Id be afraid to ask what happens if they were to experience a catastrophic
>> event, speaking from experience of Hurricanes, Earthquakes, Typhoons and
>> Tsunamis
>> What the escape plans ?? and you blame XEN for not functioning in a
>> virtual environment, Id have your job and your bosses if you worked for me!
>> I wonder who sleeps better at night, you, your boss or me!
>>
>> Tao Shen schrieb:
>>
>>        First of all, your boss should fire you for saying "windows
>>        2008 sql server runs perfectly unless windows crashes"
>>
>>        Secondly, whoever delivered the xen solution on your 200k per
>>        day production server should be fired for not understanding
>>        the concept of single point of failure.
>>
>>        Now that you learned the lesson at 5k per hour,you should dump
>>        virtual machines and have redundant physical machines for
>>        mission critical services on your network.  For 200k a day,
>>        that is 72million a year revenue, you should have a budget of
>>        at least 5 to 7 mil to handle redundancy issues, which means
>>        double or even triple redundancy networks and San storage for
>>        database servers.
>>
>>        Lastly, I think that either your boss bluffed you with 5k per
>>        hour cost of downtime, or you did, since I cannot imagine such
>>        incompetent people running a business valued at 15 times
>>        earning or hundreds of millions if your 72 million revenue
>>        figure is indeed correct.
>>
>>        Btw, xen is maintained by citrix, not Novell.
>>
>>        On Jul 20, 2008, at 11:36 AM, "Venefax" <venefax@xxxxxxxxx
>>        <mailto:venefax@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>            SQL Server only runs in Windows. I am now actually
>>            learning DB2 in order to
>>            use a Linux-based database. But of course I am not dumb to
>>            put my entire
>>            business on a database I cannot support, yet, the way I do
>>            with SQL Server.
>>            And the beauty is the with XEN-Windows 2008, SQL Server
>>            runs perfectly,
>>            unless Windows crashes.
>>
>>            -----Original Message-----
>>            From: Florian Manschwetus
>>            [mailto:florianmanschwetus@xxxxxx
>>            <mailto:florianmanschwetus@xxxxxx>]
>>            Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 12:30 PM
>>            To: Mark Williamson
>>            Cc: xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>            <mailto:xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Venefax; jim burns
>>            Subject: Re: [Xen-users] The death of XEN by Novell
>>
>>            Mark Williamson schrieb:
>>
>>                On Sunday 20 July 2008, jim burns wrote:
>>
>>                    On Sun July 20 2008 9:51:52 am Venefax wrote:
>>
>>                        The Novell engineer showed me a technical
>>                        document, which I did not
>>
>>            write
>>
>>                        the number, on the Novell web site, where it
>>                        said: windows SMP using the
>>                        Novell driver crashes.
>>
>>                    That's what I thought - the problem is with
>>                    Novell's PV drivers, not Xen.
>>                    James had some initial problems with SMP also.
>>
>>
>>                Right, that's important.  Novell's PV drivers are
>>                their code so those
>>
>>            drivers
>>
>>                might have limitations that plain Xen does not.
>>                 Presumably it would be
>>                possible to run using fully emulated IO instead of PV
>>                drivers but I
>>
>>            imagine
>>
>>                this could have performance problems in your
>>                configuration.  Could be
>>
>>            worth a
>>
>>                try, if you can afford to experiment.
>>
>>                If the Windows VMs themselves are crashing due to
>>                Novell's PV drivers then
>>
>>            I'm
>>
>>                afraid this limitation / problem is really Novell's
>>                responsibility and
>>
>>            they
>>
>>                would be the best people to approach for assistance /
>>                complaints.  The
>>
>>            code
>>
>>                for those drivers isn't open, so only Novell can fix
>>                them.  If the Novell
>>
>>            PV
>>
>>                drivers are somehow crashing your Linux domains or
>>                dom0 or Xen itself then
>>
>>
>>                that might be a Xen bug and it would be useful to post
>>                more details here.
>>
>>                For comparison, Citrix/XenSource supply with their
>>                product PV drivers for
>>                Windows that are - AFAIK - a different codebase and
>>                may not have these
>>                limitations.  So do Virtual Iron, for their Xen-based
>>                product.  Both of
>>
>>            these
>>
>>                can only be used with their respective commercial
>>                hypervisors, AFAIK.
>>
>>            James
>>
>>                Harper's PV drivers for Windows are GPL but still
>>                under development and so
>>
>>            I
>>
>>                doubt they'd be recommended for heavy production use.
>>
>>                There are a lot of different PV driver solutions for
>>                Windows about and
>>
>>            none of
>>
>>                them are officially part of the OSS Xen project; only
>>                one of them is even
>>                Open Source.
>>
>>            I really wonder why you run your SQL servers in windows
>>            and all the rest
>>            in Linux???
>>            I asume especially for databases is Windows a bad base,
>>            but i have a
>>            win20008 sharepoint running on xen 3.2.1 with 2 vcpus it
>>            works great and
>>            stable with james drives.
>>            And if you like to use this single Box, you may ask SUN
>>            (Solaris and
>>            SunXvm).
>>
>>            florian
>>
>>                        I use a SIP Server on the Linux side, talking
>>                        hundreds of times per
>>                        second to SQL Server, so I need SMP 8 ways on
>>                        both  ends.
>>
>>                    Something I've never seen you actually say is that
>>                    you *tried* vcpu=1,
>>
>>            and
>>
>>                    the performance was bad. So far, it sounds like
>>                    theory to me. Even with 1
>>                    vcpu, playing with scheduling weights should help.
>>
>>
>>                Venefax, are you able to try this?
>>
>>                Thank you,
>>                Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>            _______________________________________________
>>            Xen-users mailing list
>>            Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>            <mailto:Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>            http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>>
>>        _______________________________________________
>>        Xen-users mailing list
>>        Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>        <mailto:Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>        http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>>        __________ Hinweis von ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
>>        Signaturdatenbank-Version 3283 (20080721) __________
>>
>>        E-Mail wurde geprüft mit ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>>        http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    Xen-users mailing list
>>    Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>    http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xen-users mailing list
>> Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xen-users mailing list
> Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>



-- 
La única verdad es la realidad.

_______________________________________________
Xen-users mailing list
Xen-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users